I know what I know. I also know what I don’t know, and I don’t know much about indoor hot doggin’. I want to cover this topic but to be honest with you, I’ve never done it myself. I was always outdoors.
Have any of you vended indoors, perhaps in a mall? How difficult was it dealing with mall management?
How about converting a gas cart to electric heat? How would you go about it?
What else am I missing here? Help me out.
Please leave any indoor vending tips, tricks, secrets, answers to the above questions in the comments below.
Thanks!
-Steve
Gagion
// Nov 9, 2009 at 4:10 am
Steve,
I have been at Indoor Festivals with my propane cart…no problem. Generally I’ve done 1-3 day gigs. Beer Festivals, Food Shows,etc. I am doing a beer festival in the Poconos next week selling “The Best of the wurst”!
Rick
// Nov 9, 2009 at 5:25 am
Steve
Checked 3 malls in my area All 3 said
you have to open & ready for bussiness during mall hrs 10am to 9pm 7 days a week
longer during Christmas Season
Have 1 millon in insurance-Sign a very long lease
Cart must be aproved by management
(they want new carts or one that looks new)
and a whole list of dos & don’ts. Even Fines if you don’t comply-example $100 fine if you open late more than 3 times per mt (Mall Security will check on this)
Rent range was $1500 to $3500 per mt with a yrs lease or higher lease for Christmas Season
All 3 I checked with did not respond well to the idea of a hot dog cart but was willing to rent me space in their Food Court
None would even talk about renting parking lot space
You could covert your cart to electric by placeing electric counter top warmers on top
They will be higher than what you are used to but would take the same space as your steam table does They sell for around $100 each
Also Sams has a new 4 crock pot systems that would work they sell for around $74
Pat Maiden
// Nov 9, 2009 at 7:40 am
My husband was the Fire Marshall for our town. He say’s you cannot use the 20lb propane inside a structure, but you can use the small green bottles that a lot of Coleman stoves and laterns use. You better check with your local fire department first to make sure. This info per Life Safety Code 101 NFPA.
Cam
// Nov 9, 2009 at 8:22 am
For indoor use, I have considered installing a couple of electric griddles as a heat source, something like this:
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=14283048&RN=692&
One griddle should be big enough to set a full size spillage pan on, then set smaller pans in spillage pan. Have one for heating dogs (using half pans if desired), another set at lower temp for “steam table”. Since it would be permanently mounted, could remove the handles. Pans would need direct contact, maybe use spacers on existing mounting point, to get griddle up to pan? Or just build an electric version of the E-Z built for indoor use.
Spillage pans are enroute for my cart. I bought them here:
http://www.instawares.com/15-0069-spillage-pan-aluminum-6-5-in-deep.15-0069.0.7.htm
HD here is picky about sinks, so I am going to use 3 of these for sinks. Will use a half pan for hand sink, so pan shape will be consistent.
Cam
// Nov 9, 2009 at 8:28 am
As for 20lb propane tanks indoors – I have not obtained a definitive answer locally yet, but have not contacted fired dept. There is a hot dog cart in the local mall that has a 20lb tank mounted.
Another person mentioned that propane forklifts are operated indoors (Lowes, Menards, etc), so why not a propane hot dog cart?
Chuck
// Nov 9, 2009 at 10:07 am
Hello friends.
I have two complete set-ups for concession and vending. One is propane and the other is electric. I have used the electric set-up primarily for indoor selling.
I live on the border between Oregon and Washington and the two states have similar rules for food. It is up to each county to be specific about what they will require.
At a minimum you will need a 3-sink commissary and a separate hand washing sink.
I usually use a Star brand steamer and a star brand grill roller for basic equipment. I have Server brand condiment pumps (all stainless steel) and chip racks and a barrel cooler for my beverages.
I have spoken with one of the local mall managers concerning hours of service. I was careful to explain that folks are normally eating hot dogs from about 10:00 AM until about 2:30 PM. So in light of this information, I was able to simple lease some sq. ft. on my terms and go from there.
Don’t be afraid to ask questions or try to negotiate. Remember, you are a business person too and deserving of the same respect and consideration as a brick and morter store owner.
Finding sufficient electrical power can be a bit of a problem. I have three 50′ heavy gauge electrical extension cords that I use to “plug-in.”
I try to negotiate a deal with a store owner to trade food for electricity. Several store owners now compete with each other because they enjoy my food so much!
Since I’m indoors and in close contact with the public, I dress for the occasion. I wear a nice shirt, “Docker” style trousers and REALLY comfortable shoes. Of course I’ve also got my red apron and baseball style cap with my business logo on it and a supply of business cards.
At Christmas time I carry a five gallon Cambro container of hot cider as a specialty beverage.
Finally, to answer Cam’s question about propane forklifts ,etc…….propane powered machinery is legal in malls and other places because the fuel (propane) and the combustion thereof, take place inside a closed vessel (inside the engine) and therefor do not present a practical fire hazard. Hope this helps!
Pat
// Nov 9, 2009 at 10:09 am
A factory is a different occupancy class then a mall. Any place that is ruled as place of assembly have a more strict fire code requirement. Before you invest check with your local fire dept.
Dave Johnson
// Nov 9, 2009 at 10:20 am
The problem with our carts is that we have an open flame, whereas a forlift does not. I’ve also heard that the small “Coleman” type bottles were acceptable.
Rex
// Nov 9, 2009 at 12:52 pm
There is a casino on the edge of the city that has an indoor cart. He is
running off of natural gas and has a line tapped directly from the building
and is also supplied with electricity.
Esteban Guzman
// Nov 9, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Hey everybody, thats awesome information, gives me something to think about if I want to open in the mall. Maybe I could get one of those kiosks, (spelling) and use the small Coleman propane tanks and a Coleman stove to sell hot dogs indoors. Thanks for the helpful info!
Steve
Cam
// Nov 10, 2009 at 9:52 am
If using the one pound propane bottles, here is a way to save money using them. It’s an adapter to refill the little ones from a 20lb bottle!
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45989
Mark
// Nov 10, 2009 at 10:02 am
The three mails in my area all require you to be in the food court area. Electric cooking only and meet health specs. All required being open during the mall hours (except one that is really hurting for both stores and customers.)
Ask for a review of their foot traffic counts and also compare your competition in the food court areas! These are the deal breakers…
Esteban Guzman
// Nov 10, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Hey Cam, thanks for that excellent bit of information, I’ll keep that in mind. In fact, I think I’ll just go ahead and buy that little adapter and keep it just in case. Thanks again!
Steve
Debi Dunaj
// Nov 11, 2009 at 6:53 am
Wow..all great ideas. The mall here won’t allow it unless we rent one of their empty kiosks. And to be honest, our mall isn’t very busy at all.
I like Rick’s idea of the crockpot system. Our Sam’s has one with three instead of 4, and it would give me a way to serve soup or wings or tacos when electricity is available. Thanks!
Cindy
// Nov 12, 2009 at 10:08 am
Be sure to check out the crock pot system with your Health Department. Ours won’t allow it…takes too long to get the food up to temp.
Robert
// Nov 13, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Rick,
I have my hot dog cart operation based in Poland(Europe),but I have very similar experience when dealing with mall managers.They want you to be tied up in a lease terms of 3yrs or so.Rent they expect is extortionate.And my 6 month old cart is not flashy enough for them.I have decided to talk to high schools and universities instead.Foot traffic there is obviously not that attractive.But you can usually agree to 6 month lease and rent range is much more reasonable.
Gary - Wade's Filling Station
// Aug 15, 2011 at 10:35 pm
I personnaly have not done this, but I saw a cart at a car show, indoors, where the lady told me she could not use propane inside due to fire code restrictions. What they did let her do was use Sterno cans ontop of the burners under her pans.